JDough, I hope my point wasn't lost on you. I was asking for your response should a JW say something like that. For those of us still "in" or those who have to interact with witnesses, those types of repsonses are presented in reply to honest, critical questioning about JW doctrine. If we want to help people out of the Org, we have to be able to break up the crystallized thought process of a heavily indoctrinated mind.
Franklin Massey
JoinedPosts by Franklin Massey
-
39
JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?
by garyneal ini mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.
why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.
because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.
-
-
-
28
"Flawed Faith vs. Loss of Faith"
by leavingwt inbelow is a quote from a recent thread at the channel c forum that caught my attention.
it llustrates how the exit strategy for some awakened jws must include a religious alternative.
this particular individual is particularly concerned that jw children will become godless, upon learning that wt is not the only true religion.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Condescending Christianity practiced under the delusion that by condemning others, one is somehow helping others.
I'm an atheist. But I can see how a family raised by Christian principles can be incredibly happy and productive members of society. A Christian's belief in Jesus doesn't bother me. Believe in Sky Muppets for all I care. Just don't tell me that I am destined for failure because I don't subscribe to your brand of belief.
-
39
JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?
by garyneal ini mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.
why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.
because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.
-
-
Franklin Massey
JD, allow me to play JW here and reply with this:
The Organization has never been perfect, as it is comprised of imperfect people. But Jehovah and Jesus have a plan, as outlined in the Holy Scriptures, and they chose this Organization to carry it out. We don't use those symbols anymore because Holy Spirit delivers new light. JWs are always progressing and refining. I mean, the friends used to celebrate Christmas at Bethel! LOLZ! But look at us now, the happiest, most loving people on earth. Our numbers are growing! Evidently, Jehovah is blessing us and the Faithful and Discreet slave is providing spiritual food at the proper time.
-
39
JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?
by garyneal ini mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.
why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.
because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Cedars is right. If you ask the average JW to explain, in detail, the doctrine surrounding the special choosing of JWs in the early 1900's, most will fumble through the details and then try to end on a positive note about Christian unity, or love, or worldwide preaching, or whatever.
As I've been fading, I've noticed that a lot of JWs don't get Watchtower doctrine. The foundations for JWs being specially chosen by God are some of the most difficult teachings for JWs to grasp. They're more inclined to point to their application of basic Christian ideas as the "proof" that they are part of the one true religion. The problem is that almost all "Christian" religions teach the same basic things. JWs are not special in trying to be nice, accepting Jesus as their savior, sharing the gospel, awaiting a special reward in the afterlife, etc. But they are constantly told that there version is superior so they buy into the whole package, whether they really understand it all or not.
If a JW is faced with the realization that some of their foundational doctrine is shaky, or false, they quickly jump to a "happy place," usually basic Christianity, to soothe their troubled mind.
They won't face the fact that they can't prove the obtuse doctrine because they like being JWs. They think its the only way.
-
28
"Flawed Faith vs. Loss of Faith"
by leavingwt inbelow is a quote from a recent thread at the channel c forum that caught my attention.
it llustrates how the exit strategy for some awakened jws must include a religious alternative.
this particular individual is particularly concerned that jw children will become godless, upon learning that wt is not the only true religion.
-
-
Franklin Massey
"It is easier to adjust a believer's wrong beliefs than to claim a young agnostic/atheist from his dark place."
Sounds to me like the author is worried about some sort of Darth Vader situation happening.
-
45
So an old friend from the hall called me today....
by shakyground inhe said he wanted to know how i was doing and what was going on with me.
i knew that it was only a matter of time before he started asking about me not being to the hall in like 3 months and him trying to bring me back into the fold.
and in about less than a minute he started telling me about how everyone at the hall misses me and asks about me.
-
-
Franklin Massey
As New Chapter alluded to, this person probably thought they were doing the right thing. I've watched many JW group discussions on how to "reach" a person who is, by their estimation, not living up to their spiritual obligation. This friend may have rehearsed dozens of lines until they landed on the one that they thought would hit you like a splash of cold water and cause you to wake up from your spiritless slumber. This time, the friend used the deceased parent card.
Yes, it was intended to guilt you into coming back. Yes, it was low. But in the mind of your friend, it was the best chance of getting through to you. And to your friend's credit, sometimes it works. This time, back to the drawing board.
-
8
How is everyone?
by TimothyT iniv been getting on with my life and im enjoying it!
hope you are all doing well and happy!
timmy.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Hey Tim,
I'm very glad to hear that you are happy and free you be yourself. I was looking back at our old PMs and I must say, you have come a long way this year. Cheers!
Me, I'm much better now than I was when I found JWN. To free myself of Watchtower mind control has been one the greatest decisions I have ever made.
-
18
Lack of Elders in your hall?
by stuckinamovement inthere is an upcoming study article trying to encourage men to reach out.
in my cong there are more former elders and servants than current ones.
i was looking around the other day during a meeting and could only spot one young guy who is reaching out to be an ms. the 5 elders are now running mics.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Our hall, actually, our entire circuit is hurting. For the last couple of years, we've been hearing at Circuit Assemblies, during Circuit Overseer's visits, and in local needs parts that we need more brothers. At a recent special assembly day, the District Overseer said "we are losing so many young ones" when referring to the need for young men to "reach out for greater service."
In our hall, we have more Ministerial Servants than elders. None of the MSs will be moving to an elder role anytime soon, if ever. Our elders are few and aging. Those who aren't yet advanced in age, have been dealing with health, family and employment issues. These factors made it hard for me step down earlier this year. I like these guys and hated to leave them with such a heavy load of work.
-
156
Who would you have Lunch With? From JWN?
by AvocadoJake inthe last few years "warren buffet.
" has donated his time to the highest bidder for charity.
the ebay auction usually goes for $100,000 to spend lunch-time and pick his brain on his view.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Thanks DPL. Likewise.
I would have lunch with anyone here, even the trolls. I bet they are much nicer in real life.
-
3
Being apart has kept our family together.
by Aussie Oz insounds like an oxymoron i know!.
having just watched the danish video on youtube, i realized that because our family is not hugely close and spread out all over australia, we never went thru the shunning shit much at all.. we were never a particularly close family to my memory, mum and dad had split over the religion when i was about ten, and the relationship with the step father was tough...hard to get a step father at 14, esp a tough discaplinarian.
i left home at about 16 and a half, older brother left later i recall.
-
-
Franklin Massey
Nice post.
As a twist on the expression, "Familiarity breeds contempt," my wife and I often say, "Proximity breeds contempt."
We love our JW family. But our experience has been that the further away from them we are, the less tension there is when it comes to JW issues. My wife and I no longer believe JW doctrine. We would be willing to discuss this with our families but they are deeply entrenched and therefore, absolutely lose their heads when we show even the slightest lack of faith in the WT Society.
We structure our time together around non-JW activities and try to keep the conversation from taking a course that would lead to Watchtower-based discussions.